interviews Archives

Lawrens Godon Interview – Coin Magic and The Dynamic Back Thumb Palm

Dominic Reyes caught up with coin magic expert Lawrens Godon for a chat about how he structures his act, his performing style, and the development of his Dynamic Back Thumb Palm.

Lawrens is self taught, having fashioned his performing style and techniques through many stage shows such as the Olympia de Paris with Nilda Fernandez, and on TV shows such as”Sacrée Soirée” by Jean-Pierre Foucault, and “40 degrés à l’ombre” by Vincent Perrot. His coin magic caught the attention of some magicians working on experimental coin technique, leading to high praise indeed:

“The Coin Magic of Lawrens Godon is incredible! I was completely fooled. I had long awaited the release of his DVD on the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm…” – Ponta The Smith“

I spent some time with Lawrens during the European Coinmagic Symposium in Milano and had an opportunity to see some of the most difficult coin magic look absolutely effortless. Anyone who can muscle pass a coin directly into Harada Hold EVERYTIME is someone I need to watch…closely. I recommend Lawrens Godon’s work to anyone.”
– Eric Jones

Dominic Reyes: So, What do you most enjoy about coin magic at the moment?

Lawrens Godon: Today, what brings me the most fun is improvisation. As a musician I use chords, melody and rhythm. Magicians can do the same with all the techniques, props and misdirection out there at our disposal.

Dominic: In what way? Improvisation of your patter or the full act?

Lawrens: There’s a trend in magic named Jazz Magic, so there’s the possibility to ‘Jazz’ our coin magic!
It’s a wonderful feeling, because it’s possible to directly interact with the audience… for example, keeping various coins in some pockets, a wand in the inside jacket pocket, a silk or two, and depending on what the spectator talks about, I’m ready to improvise some magic trick. Maybe it will be with just a coin (a coin flurry), maybe I will produce the wand too and from here improvise a sequence, or/and I make a coin appear on a spectator or/and in their surrounding (under a glass, for example).  See what I mean?  Doing this, I’m free and very often I can respond to a direct wish from the spectator.

Dominic: Are all your magic sets formed ‘of the cuff’ do you also follow performing patterns?

Lawrens: Yes, I often do the classics, 3-fly, cylinder/coins, etc…  But the point is to be free with your magic, and not stuck in a foregone plan, because each audience is different and they each deserve a personal magic act.

Dominic: That’s interesting. You have a structured pattern of the classics as a foundation, which then allows you to come away from it as each audience brings it’s own situations.

Do you think this approach influenced the development of the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm you teach in Moneypulation Vol 1?

Lawrens: I wanted to share what I discovered in the field of coin magic. I thought that my work would be worth of interest for my fellow magician friends, because the move I developed, is in fact a complete system of manipulation…  Just imagine: You show a coin, slowly take (or put) it in the other hand. They clearly see the hand EMPTY, so they can’t help but assume that the coin is where it should be.

Now you open the closed hand, and the coin is gone… this is so strong, that you don’t have to “psychologically” justify your actions.

The same goes with the classic moves, such as ‘Shuttle pass’, ‘Click Pass’, False Count, etc… all adapted to the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm.

Dominic: What lead you to develop the move?

Lawrens: The traditional method of doing the Back Thumb Palm is by first holding the coin between first and middle finger, then from here placing it into position.  I wanted to change that and to begin by showing the coin in a more natural way, i.e. between thumb and forefinger. That was my first step.

Also, the old Back Thumb Palm is meant to be use in a very specific way, with the palm of the hand facing upward at belt level. I wanted to make the manipulation more dynamic and versatile…  So now the actions happen in front of the magician, at chest level, opening a whole new dimension for vertical coin magic.

Dominic:What about angles?

Lawrens: I would say that the move is a lot more covered with my method than with the old one, where one would be fixed with the hand at the side, and left with not so many possibilities… With the hand on the side, you are very exposed from the side and the back.  My method allows you to be covered from all angles: back, sides and front.

Now here’s a tip: The simple fact of doing the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm covers your angles!

Test this with some friends seated at a table : do the ROV and place the coin in the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm, keeping the arms slightly raised. You will discover that the arms block the bad angles from both sides toward the coin which is in Dynamic Back Thumb Palm! This is known as arm blocking technique…

Dominic: But what about in standing situations?

Lawrens: That’s the only condition where Dynamic Back Thumb Palm would be more difficult to use. In walk-around, such as cocktail events, where the magician and the spectators are standing up…
Then it’s up to the magician to adapt his repertoire to the conditions.

Dominic: One of the things that most impressed me about your magic, is the care and attention to psychology, build into the routines. So much of your work shows a very good awareness of behaviour, and how it can be channelled into the magic. Can you give us another example of this?

Lawrens: Sure.. You may know that the fact of showing the palm of the hand is a very strong signal of non-warlike, peaceful behaviour, which belongs to the collective unconscious. So strong a signal that scientists picked it amongst others to represent humanity in a symbolic message, The Pioneer Plaque, which is affixed on the Pioneer 10 spacecraft… the man shows the inside of his hand to be empty… Think about how you can apply this to your coin work.

Huge thanks to Lawrens Godon to take time out for this chat. Lawrens raised some interesting points about routine structure here. He used a jazz magic style, which is very popular with working magicians. However, he does explain that he also uses classic routines that have been rehearsed and structured, so that he can fall back on these when needed.

As you develop your magic, it’s important that you focus on creating a set of structured, rehearsed and mastered routines, before you move into improvisation. The reason for this is: Keeping consistency in your magic act. Your reputation is only as good as your last performance. Jazz magic has an unpredictable element, which is one of the reasons it is so popular. Improvising your magic ‘as you go’, keeps things fresh, but sometimes life throws something unexpected at you, and you need to have a safety net to fall back onto.

Lawrens publishes an interesting magic blog in which he posts magical and creative thoughts and links from around the web. It’s well worth reading!

Questions for you: How do you structure your coin routines? What are your experiences of using the Dynamic Back Thumb Palm?

Make sure to leave your thoughts in the comments section below:

NEXT: Magicians Training – Top down or Bottom Up?

Kieron Johnson on Growing Up and Being a Magician

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Right now, pretty much every good magic shop is busy telling its customers about the new magic trick from Kieron Johnson : To The Max. The trick has solved a problem that has confounded magicians for many years. How to make cubes of ice appear on your spectator’s hands, in a way that works to walk-around close up magic conditions. The trick has caused quite a buzz, so we thought we should take a closer look at its inventor: Kieron Johnson.

Dominic Reyes caught up with him for an interview:

How did you get into magic?
My friend took me to a magic shop in Southport called Magic 4. I was 21 years old, unfortunately it’s no longer open.

So you didn’t do magic as a kid?
No. To be honest, when my friend told me about the shop, I didn’t want to go. I thought magic was cheesy, but my friend begged me to go with him. I’m so glad I did. That was the best decision I ever made.

What was your childhood like?
For me childhood was quite tough. I was held back a year at primary school and at high school, I was sent to a special school for kids with severe learning difficulties, in a different county. It made making friends quite hard. I spent most my time inventing stuff from old junk, but the funny thing is, what made me an outcast when I was younger, is now the thing people love when I perform. I’m happy my life has turned out this way.

I think younger magicians have it easier, as magic is much more available online. I think it’s possible to be good technically, within a year. As for being a performer it takes much longer. I do think learning with DVD’s makes it a lot easier though.

So, do you think performing skills are more important? What’s your view on self working tricks Vs Sleight of hand?
I’m not a big fan of putting labels on magic, for me all magic should be treated in the same way. In my experience, if you want to fool a magician, do a self-working card trick, I do a mix of both. Take for example, the Invisible Deck, self-working, but there’s a reason Dynamo Magician Impossible does this too. It’s a powerful trick, and an instant reset. It is the same reason why I perform Cardtoon, It is easy to do, works for all ages, resets fast, and never fails to make your audience smile. I do like flourishing as well, I think a good balance and an open mind is what it take to be a good magician.

What was it about that experience that changed your mind?
Well, the shop was amazing, I think they could tell I was a beginner, because the shop owner Rob Graham absolutely bamboozled me. The one magic trick that really impressed me was Cardtoon 2 by Dan Harlan. I still carry that with me today. I was very lucky, he taught me how to do it in the shop and didn’t let us go until I could perform it, we were there all day. That really taught me about the importance of practice.

What was your first performance like?
Well, funny enough, it was the same day that I visited the magic shop. We had to get a local train back home. We were chatting excitedly about magic shops and playing with our new tricks, when a bunch of lads asked us to do a trick for them. I performed Cardtoon and they went mental! I got asked for my phone number and ended up getting a gig. Those two experiences made me fall in love with magic.

Wow, you discovered a magic shop, were recommended a trick, got taught by the shop, and got a booking at the end of that day. That’s one of the fastest jumps into professional performing I’ve every heard.
Ha-ha, Well, actually I was a hobbyist for three years before I turned pro. I was lucky enough to work at illusions magic bar for two years which I highly recommend. While I was working there, it forced me to think outside the box, and to invent my own magic tricks. Best of all, it taught me how to handle hecklers I highly recommend getting a residency in a bar or restaurant. That helped me get a grip on what works and what doesn’t. The added bonus, is that you will get more work once people start to hear about you.

How about your first paid gig?
For me, that’s a hard one. Because I really count my first ever gig as performing in the Illusions magic bar in Bristol. Even though I had done gigs before, I always think of that day as my first time. It’s amazing to think that three years of performing magic parties, and weddings couldn’t of prepared me for that day, it was a bit of a shock to the system. The music was loud, and the people were there to see good magic. Most of my material didn’t play to the crowd. It was like being a decent swimmer, then all of a sudden, someone had erased my memory of how to do it, so for me, this will always be my first gig, and the place I became a magician.

Who are your influences in magic?
My two heroes of magic are Richard Sanders and Max Malini. Richard was the first magician I saw do a lecture. He was engaging and his magic was so strong. On top of that, he’s a really nice guy and the Richard Sander Show series are the best three DVDs I own. I have watched them a lot.

For me Max was awe inspiring to hear about. He was one of the original close up magicians, and fooled some of the greatest magicians in the world. Houdini, Dai Vernon, Charlie Miller, and if you look out, his name is often mentioned in magic films and TV shows. As far as I can tell, he was the first to produce ice, in a world were refrigerators in the home didn’t exist, amazing! I would have loved to be able to see Vernon’s face, when he produced that ice. Check out the Magic of Malini

Where do you get your ideas?
That’s a hard one. Sometimes they come in my dreams. I keep a pen and paper nearby just in case, but mostly I start working on one idea, and develop it by working it in my act. I do this to see how it turns out. Some of the time I end up with something totally different, but that’s the fun of being creative.

What are your favourite tricks to perform?
I am big fan of metal bending. I love Liquid Metal by Morgan Strebler and Metal by Dee Christopher. I also love magic with thread. Tarantula is great!

Magic Books or Magic DVD’s?
Both! I love watching a good magic DVD, you get to see how it plays in the real world, and it’s always nice to see what you are learning.

Books are wonderful too, I love Tarbell and the Apocalypse series . These are all things you don’t get on DVD. You can find some card tricks that are hidden gems, in these books. As a magician, I think that The Royal Road to Card Magic should be banned. I hate it when someone new asks for advice, and they say Royal Road. It has some great material in it, but the English language has changed a bit since then. Why doesn’t anyone ever recommend Mark Wilson’s Complete Course in Magic book? It’s a lot easier, and is full of great ideas for a beginner.

What advice would you give to fellow magicians?
Practice your craft, and have fun. If doesn’t go well the first time, try again because every great magician you see has had to fail to succeed. Another important thing, I would say, is to get some business cards and make sure when you are at a gig you dress smart. It took me four years to learn that, but believe me, it makes a big difference!

_________________________

The Merchant of Magic would like to thank Kieron Johnson for taking the time to talk with us. if you have not already done so, check out his new release To The Max

SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT:
Kieron made some very good points in this interview. He used the character that he developed through his experiences as a child to create a performing persona. When you watch the demo trailer of To the Max, you can see the pacing and presentation are very much his own. He hasn’t tried to clone himself into someone else and that authenticity in his performance shines through.

Kieron, doesn’t seem hung up on the issue of sleight of hand. For him the effect is his central concern. He seeks out magic tricks that get stronger reactions, rather than being loyal to the methods alone.

Most valuable from this interview, is his view that his early performances to friends and family, didn’t count in his training. He regards his real schooling to be his work with the public.

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Interview With Bill Dekel – Co Creator of Airwriter

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Dominic Reyes – How did you develop Air Writer?

Bill Dekel – I started working on the Air Writer idea based on an effect in one of my previous books (MindCraft: Psionics), called Mene, Mene, Dekel (a.k.a. MMD). I first came up with MMD after some hours of thinking about how I could name a number that someone had written in the air. I published MMD, and it was very received, however, I felt that something was lacking; I wanted it to work with letters AND words.

Dominic Reyes – That must have been very frustrating, like a missing piece in a jigsaw, how did you solve it?

Bill Dekel – It was! I spent the next few weeks losing sleep trying to come up with a way to make MMD work with letters. I thought out half a dozen ideas, but threw each of them out; none of them were simple or clean enough. Then Timon Krause, one of the reviewers of MindCraft: Psionics that I had been collaborating with, contacted me with an idea he’d had that was directly based on MMD. I read his idea and instantly knew that it would work. I adapted it and, working with Timon, Air Writer was born.

Dominic Reyes – In what situations do you think it excels and in which do you think require more careful handling?

Bill Dekel – It works extremely well with a list of any sort. Some common applications I anticipated include names, star signs, and playing cards, among many others. As Timon noted, it can be used with virtually any list your spectator can come up with as well. The benefit of having a collection of known words is that it allows you to have a spectator write only one or two letters in the air.

Dominic Reyes – Does it always work for you?

Bill Dekel – I’m generally quite careful about words, and try to keep them short. They’re a bit risky, but I have used it with success now many, many times, it almost always succeeds, you feel like you’re really reading minds. It’s a bit of “risk and reward”. The greater the risk the more reward. There’s something quite powerful about telling someone what they are thinking of with absolutely nothing other than you and them.

Dominic Reyes – What do you think of the current state of mentalism?

Bill Dekel – I feel that we as mentalists are all standing on the shoulders of giants, and as such we can only go farther with every passing year, in terms of performance and techniques. I believe, be it sooner or later, that we will eventually reach a point where we will truly be able to read minds.

Dominic Reyes – How have you reacted to the reaction you have received from mentalists about Air Writer?

Bill Dekel – Quite happily, actually, as to the best of my knowledge, the reactions I’ve read about Air Writer have been entirely positive. Air Writer is an entirely new principle, and I’ve been glad that everyone reading Air Writer have appreciated that. Like most things worth learning, it’s a skill that requires practice to perfect, and that seems to have been universally recognized by the mentalists who own Air Writer.

Dominic Reyes – Tell us about your first ever performance.

Bill Dekel – It’s hard to pinpoint my very first performance in Mentalism because I started out performed magic for friends and family. That said, I think the first mind reading effect that I ever performed was at school, when I used my Mind Power deck. I fanned the deck with the faces towards my spectator. I then asked my spectator to think of one of the cards. I then told him what card he was thinking , but pointed out that it was merely an illusion. I then showed him the faces of all of the cards to show that his card had never been in the deck. I then said, “And the reason why the card was never in the deck was because this entire time it’s been in my back pocket…” as I reached around and removed their thought of card from my pocket.

Dominic Reyes – Who are your influences and why?

Bill Dekel – Around the top of the list are probably Derren Brown, Banachek, Joshua Quinn, Marc Oberon and David Copperfield. Derren Brown because he comes up with some absolutely brilliant ideas and then uses his well developed skills to make them a reality. I admire Banachek primarily because of the guts he has to perform the kind of psychological forces that he has come up with. Joshua Quinn because his work in the manipulation of words and equivoque has inspired some of my greatest effects. I always like watching Oberon perform because he makes magic, be it with cards or keys, tangible, bright, and charming, flowing seamlessly from one trick to the next. Last but not least I love David Copperfield because of his brilliant showmanship. His powerful acting abilities that enable him to make the impossible real, no matter how larger the scale, and to relate it to every one of his spectators in a personable, way, often linking it with a story.

Dominic Reyes – Where do you plan to go from here?

Bill Dekel – As I think that mentalism will only get closer to the real thing, I want to be one of those on the edge of reality, pushing forwards to create a reality for both me and my spectators.

Dominic Reyes – Thanks for taking the time for this short interview Bill. Good luck with your magic and congratulations on a great bit of mentalism!

AIRWRITER IS AVAILABLE NOW HERE